laceblade: (Default)
laceblade ([personal profile] laceblade) wrote2009-03-26 11:52 am

What say you?

Friend [livejournal.com profile] nylorac15 would like to ask us [me and you LJ friends of mine] what we think of this article from today's Christian Science Monitor from a feminist perspective (or, any other perspective you have to offer).

I have many opinions, but I'll start with the fact that I find it problematic that this "consultant and former presidential speechwriter" only cites one one study in his article (and even then, not very specifically).

If more women had been in charge of things, I'm certain that we could just as easily have entered our current financial crisis. God knows lots of us are greedy jerks, too.

The author takes many behaviors and ascribes them to being biologically ascribed, as opposed to socially constructed. I don't really agree with his sentiment, or would at the least need data to be convinced.

The difference could be evolutionary. Primordial hunters (men) had to make rapid decisions and act on them, right or wrong, but quickly. Chase that bunny! Club that rival! Run away! Gatherers (women), meanwhile, needed an awareness of the larger context – knowing which berry bushes would ripen when, how to keep the kids from clonking each other with rocks, and generally holding the tribe together and getting things done.

:[

His conclusion is hopeful, but is it really related to gender, or to people learning how to be less bastardly?

By example, they will teach us to lead less through positional authority and more through positive influence- with more of a bias toward informed action and a clearer connection between everything we know, and all we have to do.



What do you think?

[identity profile] sasha-feather.livejournal.com 2009-03-26 05:37 pm (UTC)(link)
Eh... He uses a lot of wishy-washy vague language (intentionally, I'm sure), and my impression is that the essay is supposed to be thought-provoking and controversial, a conversation-starter rather than expressive of a strong opinion.

It does make me uncomfortable to say "women should be in power because they are 'better leaders'". Women should have an equal chance at leadership roles because they have equal rights, not because they are inherently better at anything or inherently different. Hmm.

And yeah, why bring sociobiology into at all? Just, why? I'd be more comfortable with sticking to numbers-- look at the dearth of female senators. Argue it from a standpoint of representation; our government should ideally be more reflective of the populace.

[identity profile] sasha-feather.livejournal.com 2009-03-26 05:52 pm (UTC)(link)
Your post also made me think of this quote from the movie "Little Women":

Jo March: I find it poor logic to say that women should vote because they are good. Men do not vote because they are good; they vote because they are male, and women should vote, not because we are angels and men are animals, but because we are human beings and citizens of this country.
Mr. Mayer: You should have been a lawyer, Miss March.
Jo March: I should have been a great many things, Mr. Mayer.
ext_6446: (BOOKS!)

[identity profile] mystickeeper.livejournal.com 2009-03-27 09:15 pm (UTC)(link)
What a great quote!

I think I have at least three Women's Studies-esque books about Louisa May Alcott, who was apparently quite a prolific writer about race, women's rights, and the like. She wrote tons of books, but of course her ones about family were the ones that were popular. She's an interesting lady!

[identity profile] bibliofile.livejournal.com 2009-03-26 06:30 pm (UTC)(link)
... my impression is that the essay is supposed to be thought-provoking and controversial, a conversation-starter rather than expressive of a strong opinion.

Yes, exactly. He says some interesting things, but he's using some out-of-date stuff to bait the trap. I mean, arguing that women do it better inherently, or using evolution? Margaret Thatcher put those things to rest back in the '80s.
ext_6446: (HEINOUS)

[identity profile] mystickeeper.livejournal.com 2009-03-27 09:15 pm (UTC)(link)
LOL Margaret Thatcher.

[identity profile] cynthia1960.livejournal.com 2009-03-26 05:40 pm (UTC)(link)
This sounds like some articles I've seen recently about the financial meltdown in Iceland and how women are working on the recovery. Guardian UK article (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/feb/22/iceland-women)
Vanity Fair article (http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2009/04/iceland200904?currentPage=all)

I wouldn't extrapolate from Iceland's example to the US or the whole planet, my gut level feeling is, like you, that women are just as capable of causing a meltdown than men are if given the opportunity. We'd have to have more than just anecdotal evidence of the contrary, and it would have to take a fair chunk of time. If I'm around in twenty or thirty years, it might be interesting to look at Iceland again, but it would probably take more of your projected lifespan to look at real change. I'm a fair bit older than you, and I don't figure I'll be around to see it.
ext_6446: (Rini)

[identity profile] mystickeeper.livejournal.com 2009-03-27 09:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks for that link! I was listening to NPR or something the other day, and I knew that Iceland was one of the hardest hit nations by the economic crisis, but wasn't aware of the women's work that was being done.

[identity profile] fengi.livejournal.com 2009-03-26 06:10 pm (UTC)(link)
I don't know about that article, but I can think of at least one instance where sexism played a major role in market regulation which led to this disaster (http://fengi.livejournal.com/924492.html).

[identity profile] homo-nescius.livejournal.com 2009-03-26 10:57 pm (UTC)(link)
I worry whenever people start crying "biology." So much of what we think is sexually inherit is just another example of socialization. There are several counterexamples to a lot of those "intuitive" assumptions we make about sex and gender, yet we ignore them because it "sounds right." And it's that exact type of preying on people's intuitions and assumptions by the media(without proof or scientific method) that propagates sexism to begin with!

i agree

[identity profile] soapergem.livejournal.com 2009-03-27 02:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Jackie, I know we don't always agree on everything, but I wanted to just comment that this time I happen to completely agree with what you wrote here. While I admit that gender very well could have been a contributing factor to the recession, I think the primary reasons were what they usually are--that people are stupid and greedy, and are only looking out for themselves.

And I will add that I didn't like to see the author characterize all men as being innately impulsive and arrogant. Because while that may be a common trait to some men--even many men--I don't think it's something shared by all of us. And even if it is a trait in any particular man, they could always overcome that tendency if they wanted to. The author just seems to suggest a stereotype that all men are dumb brutes who would be forever lost if they didn't have other people to guide them. (And I don't like that stereotype.)
ext_6446: (Fuck this!)

Re: i agree

[identity profile] mystickeeper.livejournal.com 2009-03-27 02:45 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, sure. You know, thinking critically about the way gender is represented in the media (both in news media, such as this article, as well as TV/movies/books) does not only behoove women! Dudes also experience loads of unfair representation.
ext_6446: (Sarah Connor)

Re: i agree

[identity profile] mystickeeper.livejournal.com 2009-03-27 07:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Addendum!

I've been giving your comment a lot of thought since my initial reply this morning.

I know we don't agree on much when it comes to discussing gender/sex and the way it's discussed in the media, but it's really not that novel to me that you agree with my post here. And the reason why is because in this post, I'm criticizing the article for what it says about dudes (in addition to what it says about ladies, but your comment focuses on the dude aspect). If I had written the same post about what a newspaper article had written about women, would you be so quick to agree with me?

Re: i agree

[identity profile] soapergem.livejournal.com 2009-03-27 07:48 pm (UTC)(link)
I have no idea. Is that a challenge? Obviously it would depend on what you write. I can't offer a carte blache agreement without knowledge of what you were going to say.

P.S. Damn you change your avatar a lot.
ext_6446: (PATRIARCHY SMASH)

Re: i agree

[identity profile] mystickeeper.livejournal.com 2009-03-27 07:56 pm (UTC)(link)
LOL. On LiveJournal, users can have multiple avatars (I have 35), and can pick which one to use every time they make a post/comment. It's one of the reasons why it's so exciting compared to Blogger (at least, for me!).

As for articles, yeah I don't really have a companion one to this one. I have noticed that a lot of the articles you post on FB are about dudes and how they are (mis)represented in the media. Perhaps Men's Studies or Gender Theory would be a cool way to spend any free time you might have? I am very unread in Men's Studies (in fact, I am very unread in Women's Studies...I have piles of stuff I haven't read yet).

Re: i agree

[identity profile] soapergem.livejournal.com 2009-03-28 01:57 am (UTC)(link)
Free time?! Ha! But in all seriousness, I already do spend a bit of time reading articles that would be categorized as "Men's Studies" (where does that apostrophe go?) from one particular Mens' Rights (take that, consistency) website that you'd probably hate. Some of the articles are quite good, some can be very anti-feminist, and others are admittedly misogynistic. (But those first two classifications aren't always mutually exclusive... *runs and hides*)